[00:00:00] Mindie: I had a guy once. This is like one of my favorite stories. He was like probably a 10 looks wise, a 10 brain wise, maybe a 3.5. Not the smartest, but super attractive. And so I thought, let's give this a

[00:00:19] Stephanie: shot Today I'm beyond dating. We chatted with Mindy from Mail Room and she gave us all the insider info on boys and girls.

And our sponsor for today's episodes is Beyond the newest dating app in town. Check it out at Date Beyond dot. What is the cringes thing? Anyone with a penis has ever told you? .

[00:01:03] Mindie: Well, how much time do we have? Uh, just kidding. Actually, I have a very recent one, um, which is a cringey, um, comment followed up by a cringey Ask.

Yes. Um, are you sitting down? Okay. So basically I met a guy at a. Which I thought was an interesting place to meet. Um, it was definitely not a date, but we kind of hit it off. We were talking shop, we had coffee, then he asked me to dinner the next night. So all was going well and he, um, he was basically going into the fact that he's very spiritual and, um, he wanted me to send him pictures, um, of my.

and not just, um, like a normal picture, but I had to be like deadpan. And then he wanted a profile picture. And um, he told me that he has someone that does these readings. And I was thinking, I asked some friends like, is this Tinder swindler stuff? Like, is this guy gonna steal my identity? But the more I talked to him, I thought, you know what, he's just normal.

He's like a founder type. He's very open and. I decided I'm gonna send him the pictures, which I know is weird, but I was just like, I'll be open. Maybe I'm being too judgey. So I send the pictures and then he says, okay, these are fine. But when you send the profile one, I need you to show your ear. You need to move your hair and show your ear because.

This guru that I talked to needs to see your bone structure or whatever. I was at work, I was busy. I was just like, this is a little too weird. This is my line, but I'm going with it. Sent the pictures. Never heard from him again. What did he use the pictures for then? . I know. I don't know. So it's cringey and it's scary.

Ooh. So if there's a few of me running around you. .

[00:03:02] Stephanie: We'll definitely be on the lookout for that. Yeah. So I know you interview a lot of men Yes. On your podcast, it's the mail room, right? Yes. So what's that like? What have you learned from that

[00:03:14] Mindie: experience? Um, it's fascinating. Inside the mind of men. Mm-hmm. . Um, the reason I started this is because I wanted to recreate conversations that I have with my guy friends about dating and typically, , the advice or perspectives they have, um, is very dependent on the type of guy that they are.

So if they're like the smooth guy, they'll read a text and say, oh yeah, I text this to five girls at one time. Or if it's my friend who's more of the sensitive type, they might think that a guy's being vulnerable in what he's saying. So, um, I've learned a lot and basically the biggest takeaway for me is that we're kind of all non.

and there's a lot of people that have perspectives, but depending on your experiences, how you're wired and your life stage is what I found to be really different among all the different types of guys.

[00:04:08] Stephanie: Mm-hmm. so. I, I know we're all, we're all non-experts, right? Mm-hmm. , but I'm sure people think that they are experts.

What are those , what are those interactions like with those guys?

[00:04:19] Mindie: So, yeah, some definitely think that they're experts and some give advice. , um, that might be different than how they actually date. Mm-hmm. , which is interesting. Mm-hmm. . So I'll give you an example. Um, one of the things we do is we translate texts for girls.

So when they submit, um, guys will say something like, you know, play hard to get right. Um, but then let's say on the first date, I always ask, Should a girl put out, should she not? And they'll say, no. The ones I date I wanna like get to know and cultivate. But then they'll always try, right? So I'll ask them like, what do you want this girl to do?

In the heat of the moment you're showing her that that's where you're at. And if she is also feeling that way, um, then I think she thinks you're in sync, right? But. , there's this afterthought of like, but if she did, then she's doing that with so many different guys probably. And, and I'm, I'm no different, so I need, I need the girl that's gonna wait.

You know? So it's like, it's sometimes a bit of a disconnect. Mm-hmm. . And I think they sometimes don't even

[00:05:30] Stephanie: realize it. Yeah. Why do you think that is?

[00:05:33] Mindie: Um, I think sometimes it's like what people think they want versus what they want is different. Like, it's like head versus heart versus other parts, you know?

So sometimes in the heat of the moment, you know, one of the things I ask is, I'm always curious. Um, if a girl says to a guy that she's looking for something serious, then guys tend to want that conversation to be delayed, like, get back to me on like a third or fourth or fifth date. It's too much pressure.

Um, but then some of the guys will say, I might think that I want something serious, and I could, I could tell a girl that, but then. as I get to know her, we might not be a match. So now I'm, I'm kind of a jerk because I told her I was open to something serious and it was in the beginning. Um, and then sometimes there's the opposite of that, which is guys who say that they are open to it cuz they wanna hook up.

And that's where I think, that's where I try to get into it and, and say, if you just communicate with a girl and tell her clearly what you. . And if you don't wanna be serious, then let her decide if she wants to be physical with you. Mm-hmm. knowing that it's just fun versus taking her down this road of, um, what could

[00:06:51] Stephanie: be mm-hmm.

So like, when you're interacting with these guys, when you're talking to these guys, how many of them do you think, like percentage wise, Secure and they, or they know what they want and are like in sync with what they think, what they want and what they actually want,

[00:07:11] Mindie: versus I would say about 12%. Okay. Wow.

Yeah.

[00:07:14] Stephanie: 12%. Oh no. Oh, no. . Yeah.

[00:07:18] Mindie: I think there's just, I think there's this, um, illusion that, um, sometimes I think we think. . If a guy isn't ready and he's telling us he's not ready, then we're like, oh my God, this is a challenge. Or I'm gonna be the one to change him. And sometimes that can happen, but a lot of times it's like the age old, like someone will tell you who they are in the beginning.

Um, and one hack, I like to do it. It ha it happens organically, but I think it's helpful to share is like on a date when you're getting to know someone. I think people go to like the go-to questions. , you know, basics, where you're from, what siblings are you close. I'll always ask like, so are you and your brother similar or different?

Ooh. Then it's like, well, he's like, so giving, and I'm, I'm known as the selfish brother. And you're like, oh, that's a clue. You know, like, or through a story. Um, if I'm like figuring something out like at work or a big life decision, I'll just. and like get someone's opinion like, oh, I was gonna move somewhere.

Or what do you, and then someone will give you their opinion and then they'll sometimes tell a story. And then you can see like as their character, who are they in the story? Are they like the good friend? Are they the douche bag? Like who are they?

[00:08:36] Stephanie: What's the best, best or not best? But what's the most interesting thing that you've learned when interviewing?

all these men for your podcasts.

[00:08:50] Mindie: I would say sometimes the answers will literally be one answer at the beginning of a sentence and another answer at the end. Like sometimes I think they're just not sure. Mm-hmm. , so I'll give you an example. one episode we did, um, I asked sex on the first date, deal maker.

Mm-hmm. or deal breaker, and the guy, very charming, attractive British guy. So that was helping the answer. But he said, oh no, I want to get to know the girl for who she is. And, and he's. obviously handsome. And so I'm hosting and in real time I'm just like, yes, you know, I agree. And I said, well then do you still try?

Oh yeah, you got to always, you try, I wanna test the chemistry. I wanna, and I'm like, bro, like what do you want this girl to do? You know? Like she, you just said you want her to wait, but then you say you always try mm-hmm. . So, um, you know, what, what should this girl do? So there's situations like that where I think guys think they know something and.

they changed their mind in real time. Um, the other thing is, what I'm noticing more recently is that a lot of guys don't really know their roles anymore. So I think previously it was like men were the, the, um, The caregiver, they were like the um, provider. They were the man and we were like, thank you.

We're gonna do everything else. Um, and they could be like very masculine and that was attractive. And the more closed off they were, maybe that was also like we wanted to really get them to open up and that was our job. And now I think that women are doing so much more and they're confident and they want a guy who's going to therapy.

I think a lot of. can be lost because they're not sure how much they should do. They're conditioned to be like, you know, very masculine and, um, be in that role. So I'm seeing more of that. The guys that are open to talking about that are a little unclear and they need to reinvent themselves and I think the right person, um, can help them do that.

Or they can do the work themselves too, but they just, um, I. , the ones who embrace that are having stronger relationships. Mm-hmm. .

[00:11:14] Stephanie: So when you're em, like, what, what do you think holds people back from, you know, going to therapy, exploring and trying to, you know, build a stronger relationship with yourself and

[00:11:28] Mindie: others?

I think for men historically, , it hasn't been a thing, like for men, their dads weren't going to therapy. Mm-hmm. . And I think that in some places and cultures, it has like a negative connotation. Like, oh, I don't need that. I'm fine. You know, and I'm the strong person. And come to find out, like when you go there, that's like where the growth is.

Mm-hmm. and so, , one of the things we started doing is we're interviewing men all across the world. So we just did episodes in Tel Aviv and, um, we're gonna go to Wyoming and interview cowboys, like all these different types of men. And so, um, in some of like certain cultures, therapy is just like, it's a sign of weakness.

And so, um, historically. I think that it just sometimes has that connotation. Mm-hmm. .

[00:12:20] Stephanie: So how has this whole process affected your dating life? ?

[00:12:24] Mindie: I feel much better about it. Mm-hmm. , like, especially a lot of women come up, um, after we do an event or they come up or they, um, comment and they're like, I feel so much better cuz I'm experiencing this too.

I think a lot of. Dating content for people is a lot of self-help is what's been out there. And I think it's, it's kind of reassuring to see and hear all these different things and think like, oh, me too. I've been on a date like that. It doesn't mean that any of these people are bad people. They're just not a match.

And you know, different dates and different types of styles that people have, bring out different sides of you. And so I. If we go on a bad date, it's like, oh my God. Maybe it's either like, what's wrong with them? Or like, did I, did I really say that? Or what? And there's a lot of that that can be heavy instead of just like, that guy was whack.

Like, that's not my person. And. , there's probably someone for the them and someone for me, and that's not it. And thank God that was only an hour and a half other pro tip. I recommend happy hours. That way you can get in and get out. You can um, say you have a dinner after and if it goes well, you can cancel the dinner.

You know, that kind of thing. Thing I've told you've done that before, .

[00:13:40] Stephanie: Oh my goodness. Yes. Yes. Uh, so what are the different types of men then? Oh my

[00:13:45] Mindie: god. Categories. There's so many. Okay. So there's like, there's typical like archetypes. Mm-hmm. , um, like some that we've had, uh, would be like, there's a guy who called himself a finance non bro who was kind of like a finance guy but had a sensitive side.

Um, then there's. The hipster burner type, but these, these are all just like general archetypes and then there's what I found, like hybrids of those. So you could be like the smooth, um, nice guy with an edge, you know? So, um, I've seen a lot of different types and I. I even when you think you might know someone in their type, they'll come out with a point of view that now you're thrown off and they might be different.

So there are these kind of, and, and men can do that and look at women, obviously they do that too, but there's variations. But I find there's like a few main themes across the board from what I've seen.

[00:14:48] Stephanie: Okay. So based off of the main themes. Yes. Like how do I interact with each, each one , each type.

[00:14:56] Mindie: Well, . I do this thing where I get guys to do PSAs and what always comes out from all the types is like, just be yourself.

And whether that is cliche or just sounds good and makes them look good, I think, um, you can learn a a lot about yourself by obviously being yourself, but when you're interacting with these types, right, and seeing what they bring out in you. So maybe this smooth guy. makes you a little anxious because Y you're curious if what they're saying is authentic or not, but they're so hot that you don't care.

Like that could bring out one side of you. Mm-hmm. . And then over time maybe you realize like, that's pretty surface and that was spawn. I don't want that. And the sensitive guy, like even when I asked them an an answer, I mean a question and they answer and it's like poetic. I'm like, oh my God, I should date the sensitive type, you know?

But then the nice guy, like who doesn't want a nice guy, but then the nice guy, if he's too nice, then maybe if you're a strong type, you want someone that will challenge you. So I think it's like a combination. I clearly don't have it all figured out, but from all the market research I've done, I think it's like.

showing up, being yourself and seeing how you interact when you get to know them and what you're learning about them and like, but really look at like what they're bringing out in you and if you like that side of you or if it's too anxious and you know, they wait days or hours to text or they're always rescheduling.

Like that's not a version of you. That's probably ideal, but someone who's like consistent to me that is like number one these days. Consistency. It's like when someone's just showing up con continually and it's easy. Like that is all I'll make time for if it's this like sporadic. inconsistency. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. It's kind of, um, then I don't have time for it anymore, which I used to make time for that cuz it was exciting and interesting

[00:16:58] Stephanie: I think. Mm-hmm. . Okay, so I wanna get into some spicy stuff. So what are like men's darkest secrets that maybe they don't even

[00:17:07] Mindie: know? Um,

I think, okay. They're darkest secrets. They, they don't always share them with me. Um, but when they have, um, I think that, Like when a lot of men are growing up, they see, and women too, but you see like these romcoms or you see these movies and it sort of begins to like mold what your type is. So if a guy tells me and I'm like, oh, what's your type?

And they're like, tall, blonde, big rack. You know? I'm like, cool, nice to meet you. Not it. Um, but like I think sometimes guys will gravitate to whatever they've been conditioned to like and. From there, um, the like fantasy of what someone is versus who they want. But then they also want someone eventually if they wanna have a family that's like gonna be a mother figure or that kind of thing.

So I think, um, sometimes some of them have talked about like the fantasy of someone, um, versus like who they end up with and will they always want that other person. I had a guy once, this is like one of my favorite stories. Um, he was, , probably a 10 looks wise, a 10 brain wise, maybe a 3.5. Not the smartest, but super attractive.

And so I thought, let's give this a shot. So this is a long time ago, but um, when. Things. We, we went out, hung out a couple times and he just like couldn't connect on anything that wasn't like total surface. Um, and so I thought like, all right, this'll be easy. I'll just like fade it out. And then, um, he kept wanting to have plans, so I decide, okay, the last time I'm just gonna like tell him.

I just would guess I'm not his type and like kind of end it as a compliment. So I said, um, there was like a, this tall like modelesque girl walking by and I was. Yeah. You know, I feel like that girl would like be much more air type and he was like, really? Yeah. Like, uh, normally she would be like, I used to date girls that look like that.

But then I realized like if they had work done that like they would look like the original version of the woman instead of like, if we had kids, it would look like the, that version of her, the, the early version. I was like, wow, this guy is sharp, so we broke up. Um, but yeah, I think that just going back to like what you think you want and what you really want could be very different depending on how aware you are of your surroundings.

[00:19:51] Stephanie: Okay. Then what traits you men share across all archetypes

[00:19:55] Mindie: then? Um, they always want action number one, . Um, let's see. They. , I mean, across the types, I think, I think sometimes they're a bit misunderstood. Um, I'm always on the side like I'm a spy for the girls, um, but a friend of the guys kind of thing. And so in that respect, um, I try to be open to hear it, but I think, um, I think a lot of guys.

they will think with the physical, and that gets them in a lot of trouble at any age or archetype. So, um, I think the ones that I, I think what I find is when guys become like an uncle or they have like a, something like that where, or they're friends, the wing men like start dying down a little bit and they look around and they're like, wait a second.

uh, wait. Should, there's more to life than like going out and getting numbers and, um, I think sometimes that can really like calm a guy down. But I think a lot of it historically is like, sometimes guys will get in their own way, um, or they'll say the wrong things in the moment to get, um, a, like a quick fix and then later realize.

they maybe went too far, so I, I think. Not with every guy, but I do think a lot of times that is like a big obstacle that sometimes gets in the way.

[00:21:33] Stephanie: Mm-hmm. . So as a spy for the girls? Yes. And a friend of the boys. Yes. How, do you have any tips on how to communicate with men?

[00:21:42] Mindie: Yes. . I think a lot of the old ways are very outdated.

Mm-hmm. . So I think the like game playing, I mean, everyone likes a little mystery, so I don't think like the second you someone reaches out, you're always available. You know, it's just human nature. Sometimes it's like, oh, I wish I could talk to them. And then two hours later they call and you're like, yes.

But I think like back in the day there was this book called The Rules and it was like, don't accept a date after Wednesday for the weekend. And like it was all this. It was like a lot of persona of how to be to like get a guy. But at the end of the day, if you're playing all these games, when you finally like get the guy and you're more available, like, is that gonna work or not?

Or, you always have to do that. So I think it's like, it's somewhere in between. Um, just communicating. I think the biggest thing is communicating what you want. Just your values. It doesn't have to mean with you. So like if we're on a date and I tell someone eventually I do wanna settle down and have a family.

And if that, I never used to do that. I would wait and wait, wait one time I waited three months because it was so much fun. And then come to find out we were so misaligned and I'll never get that time back. You know, like that was like, and. . I don't, I think if it's too pragmatic, it takes away the magic.

But I think early on, just communicating what you want or, you know, a lot of people now don't wanna have kids and that's, that's fine too. Or a lot of people just wanna be single and like have the best time. But I think if that's what you want, there's something wrong with that. But if you're wanting to date multiple people and someone else is wanting to settle down, , you don't talk about that.

Then one person's gonna be frustrated. The single person, eternal single person, should be with another eternal single person or, um, People who want something sooner. I think communicating that is important and it'll weed out all the wrong people.

[00:23:45] Stephanie: Mm-hmm. . So do these same tips apply to men when they're trying to communicate with women, or do you have like extra tips that you give to the

[00:23:53] Mindie: boys?

Um, yeah. I, I tell them that if you tell a girl what you want, then they're odds of like, Getting laid might be lower. Sure. But there's a lot of confusion when I, I think like someone I know mentioned on the show that, um, they were invited to Thanksgiving with someone's family and during that time the guy was like to her, oh, are you dating anyone now?

And she's like, wait, what I thought we were doing, I'm literally here with your family. Like, I thought this was a step and you are like wanting to know about what I'm doing outside of this. So I think. Situations like that. I tell these guys like, it's just a point of view again, and I'm, I'm like the anti expert.

But, um, if you tell a girl, look, I'm really attracted to you. I just got out of something serious. I'm not, I, I'm not in that head space for a while, but I'd love to hang out. Then the girl has all the information she needs, and if it. Fine for her and it can be fun. Then she knows the facts. It's when, you know, some of these guys in the moment will be like, I would, I would love something serious.

Like I've been thinking, you know, I wanna settle down for a while. Like, New York is fun, but I want that one person, it's cuffing season. Or you know, and then the girl is like, wow, I wanna cultivate this, you know? And so, , she's going down a very different road and the guy is like, cool, this, you know, she's very open to doing whatever and then eventually it, you know, could get ugly.

So I, I tell these guys like just from. talking to a lot of women, like they just want to know. It doesn't mean that it's a deal breaker, but they just want the honesty.

[00:25:41] Stephanie: Mm-hmm. And off of that, you know, when you're dating, it's like a whole different ballgame. You've, you've explained obviously, , but what does modern dating look like then to

[00:25:52] Mindie: you?

Um, it's exhausting. I think it, it's like a paradox of choice. Mm-hmm. , it used to be. you would date within your radius. Like, oh, you know, uh, someone knows someone that lives here or now it's like endless. And I think because like online of swiping has also like determined the behavior offline. It's like you could be on a date and someone walks by and you're like, oh, you know, it's like, it's hard for people to focus.

And so I. . So much of it is like being responsible for your own actions and looking at yourself and saying like, I mean, I do it too. Like I, I could be on a date and be like, oh, this guy is really interesting. Oh, but that guy, he was interesting and he was well traveled and, um, he's like, volunteers and, but this guy, oh, but he's so hot.

You know, and it's like, there's so many options. so many options. And, um, so I think modern dating is like, . It's a lot and, and I think it's important for people to like be responsible for their own behavior and be focused on what you want and, and look at the signs too, because if you do want something serious and the person's not showing up, I think it's just like moving on quicker.

I think before people would stay in relationships longer, and I think it's important to. look around like, are you getting what you need? Are you being a good partner? Is this person bringing out the best in you and, and vice versa. And if not like, because there are so many choices. Go and then, um, you know, it can be really fun.

You could like meet all these different types of people that you wouldn't normally meet, which I think is an advantage of it. Um, but with that it's also like reigning it in and, and making sure that you're giving people enough of a chance

[00:27:41] Stephanie: too. Mm-hmm. . So you're a breast cancer survivor. Yes. How has that, you know, changed your dating life and affected the way you interact?

You know, men and the way you seek out relationships.

[00:27:56] Mindie: So, yes. Um, this is very recent. Mm-hmm. . So this is about a year and a half ago. Um, I think, you know, it hasn't made me, um, it hasn't made things heavier. I like made sure I, I, I, um, don't wanna lead with it in any kind of relationship. But, um, what I found is,

Um, I have a lot less time for wasting my time. So I think before it was like, oh, this guy, like, he's half in, half out, he's there, he is showing up, he's not, and now it's like, I don't have time for that. Literally, uh, going through something like that, um, it gave me much more perspective. It didn't like change me completely.

Um, but it definitely opened my eyes to like, if someone's showing up, I'm there. If they're not, I. . And so thankfully that's one way to look at it. And then the other thing is, um, it's a very personal thing. So like it's a personal, um, uh, Part . It's so, um, I, like, I, it's something I wanna share with someone, but it's not something I wanna share, like right out of the gates as it's heavy.

And especially if you're just getting to know someone and keeping it light. But then it's been eye-opening too because when I do share it, um, I can really see how that person receives it. And if they ask questions, even if they're awkward, it's okay. Cuz sometimes people like they don't know what to say or what not to say, but I find I can see if someone would be there and like really show up.

Um, or if they kind of wanna just like move on. And in that case, they can't really go there. And, and that could be fine if that's a partnership you want, but for me, going through something like that, it really opens you up and gives you a lot of depth and you want that partner to be there with you.

Mm-hmm. . and I was also single during that time. So that was, um, it was intense, but it makes you very strong so you come out of it and you, you know, don't have time for a lot of the stuff maybe you made time for before. Mm-hmm. , no time the waste. Nope.

[00:30:11] Stephanie: So have you noticed that? A difference in the way people treat you or react after you tell them, you know, after you've been seeing them for a while.

Mm-hmm. , or whenever you

[00:30:22] Mindie: share it. Yeah. Guys don't care. Like, oh, that, that came out wrong. . Physically, they don't care. Like, I have scars. They're going away in time and I, I'm not timid about it, but when I share I'm like, well, it, like, I don't care. Take it off. Let me see. You know? And I'm like, you guys are so gross, but okay.

You know? So it's like, . It makes it easier. Cuz I think in the beginning I was like, okay, so on this date I'm gonna share it. And, and they literally do not care. They're just like, I don't care. I mean, some are very understanding and they wanna go there and some are just like, cool. Like not a thing. So it depends on the type.

Yeah.

[00:30:59] Stephanie: Yeah. , do you have a favorite

[00:31:01] Mindie: type, um, favorite type of guy? Mm-hmm. ? I do, but I haven't met him yet. It's like there's all these variations. . Um, so I mean, I love men. I love dating. Um, and especially with the show, it's definitely not man hating, but there's like qualities of one type that I really like.

And another, if I could just make the guy from the types, that would be great. Um, but yeah, there's a pattern. Some of my friends. A good pattern, others disagree. Um, but yeah, generally, um, I gravitate to a certain type. Mm-hmm. .

[00:31:39] Stephanie: Okay. We're gonna have to go to build a boy and

[00:31:41] Mindie: get you. Oh my God, that's a great idea.

Right.

[00:31:44] Stephanie: Should we. We could do it. Yeah. Let's do a side business. Mm-hmm. , I got you. Yeah, I got the, the boys on deck

Well thanks for that. You welcome. Wow. So you've been so insightful and I really want to learn more and watch more of your show. So how can we find your show and how can we, you know, find you,

[00:32:07] Mindie: um, thank you. And so on Instagram, we're a mail room official. Um, we're on YouTube. And TikTok and also, um, we have some episodes up on cosmo.com and, um, also I always ask women to submit their texts.

So if you have any shady, questionable texts that you want analyzed on the show, please feel free to send. Oh, I have so many. Oh, yeah. And send me yours please. . I got

[00:32:31] Stephanie: you. I'll show you the list. Screenshots on screenshots. Great. . Well, thank you so much for chatting with me. Thank you. This has been really

[00:32:38] Mindie: fun.

Likewise.

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